xdotool replacement using wayland protocols

[lnee94]

The remote desktop protocol should be able to do a lot of heavy lifting

[probonopd]

Not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate? Thanks!

[lnee94]

Not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate? Thanks!

Make A script that mimics xdotools interface but does all of the things using way protocals

[probonopd]

Yes. That'd be a good way to do it, but that would require that everything that can be done with xdotools can be done with Wayland protocols. Is that the case?

[lnee94]

https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.impl.portal.RemoteDesktop.html
Supports absolute mouse movement and keyboard.

[tildearrow]

https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.impl.portal.RemoteDesktop.html Supports absolute mouse movement and keyboard.

This is not enough for an xdotool equivalent. Window query and modification functions (maximize, close, resize, move, you know) don't exist.

[lnee94]

With windows on kde you could make a kwin script

[probonopd]

With windows on kde you could make a kwin script

Thanks for the idea, but we need solutions that are not tied to any particular desktop environment.

[ernzo]

Good example of KWin script method, kdotool:
https://github.com/jinliu/kdotool

[probonopd]

Yes, but we need something that works on every Wayland based system, not only KDE.

[ernzo]

Yes, I mentioned it cause kdotool seems the best implementation of this type I've seen so far.. (noob here)

There's other guys going the Xwayland rootful way:
https://ofourdan.blogspot.com/2023/11/xwayland-rootful-part-2.html

But yeah, in the end this needs to break away from Xwayland and X11 too..

[ssokolow]

Frankly, their description of how it works makes me wonder what the KWin devs are thinking.

If something can script the installation and running of a temporary KWin Script, what's the point in requiring those APIs to only be used within one? It provides no security benefit.

[Pannoniae]

How the hell is it reasonable to generate a script, load it, run it then delete it for a simple task? What if someone wants to do it every frame? This is just unbelievably inefficient...

[ssokolow]

Because that's not how the KDE interfaces are meant to be used, just like how you're not supposed to fork a new instance of xdotool every frame.

[Pannoniae]

Sure, they are not meant to be used that way.... but it's not like there are proper APIs to do that sort of thing, either.

[ssokolow]

My point is that, if you're already writing a KDE-specific tool, the proper solution for attempting to do stuff that quickly is to write a persistent script that just gets installed along with the command-line utility, stays loaded, and waits for commands through some avenue like the creation of a minimized-by-default, skip-taskbar, always-below window containing the relevant control data in its properties.

...plus, this would all make sense as a security measure if they hadn't left the combination to their heavy-duty vault on a post-it note on the door. I can only assume the security model is "Flatpak apps will only have been granted access to the relevant D-Bus APIs in exceptional circumstances and traditionally installed applications aren't part of what's being mitigated against".

[ernzo]

Well, kdotool is basically using KWin via DBus as an interface to communicate with the system..
KWin also goes via DBus to interact with the rest of the system/kernel..

This provides a higher level of abstraction making it easier to interact with the kernel,
while also adding basic security, although it can be easily bypassed..

I guess if we wanted stronger security we will need to operate on a lower level.

What we need then is something like kdotool that interacts directly with the system/kernel, bypassing in effect KWin..
But that will add a lot of complexity and add its own security risks.. (maybe via wlroots or libwayland?)

Another option could be going through a compositor like Sway,
it might bring security of its own, but we'll be limited to its actual capabilities.. (plus not everyone uses Sway)